17- FOXcast PT: Cathy Ciolek At Our Geriatric Residency In PT

Cathy: I was really not thinking that this was where I was going to be when I was a student. I went to school to be a PT in pediatrics. I never got my pediatric internship. I really only ever worked with older adults and found that this was really where my passion was – helping them be able to live on their own and live at home and have a good quality of life. For me, I know I’m letting them live the life they want.

Jimmy: Welcome to FOXcast, a podcast for clinicians made by clinicians. It’s brought to you by FOX Rehabilitation. Find out more at foxrehab.org.

Alright, welcome to FOXcast PT. I’m your host, Physical Therapist Jimmy McKay, and I’m joined now by royalty here in the APTA. Cathy Ciolek, the Vice President of the Academy of Geriatric Physical Therapists. We interviewed together at CSM.

Cathy: Yes!

Jimmy: And the interview didn’t work.

Cathy: Yeah, I thought it was a great interview. That was the most fun when we’ve done in awhile.

Jimmy: Greatest interview ever and we had technical problems so half of the interview was deleted and I couldn’t release it, so I’m sorry.

Cathy: And maybe because I had to have too much bleeped out, I’m not sure.

Jimmy: That’s just what I’m telling you – it’s a technical difficulty. But at the time we were saying congratulations on being the new Vice President of the Academy of Geriatric Physical Therapists.

Cathy: Yes, thank you!

Jimmy: And by now, what – you’ve done a month? A little more than a month?

Cathy: Yeah, two! Twoish months.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Cathy: We have some really exciting stuff coming out! We’re really trying to look at rebranding the Academy – that it’s not just skilled nursing therapists that we’re interested in. And really had to work… if you work with anyone over the age of 65 you’re working with geriatrics!

Jimmy: Yeah.

Cathy: Even if you think you’re primarily a sports or an orthopedic therapist.

Jimmy: Yeah, I, uh, one of my colleagues here at FOX, Heather Cronin was giving a presentation at a university and said” “how many many students here are thinking about working with the geriatric population?” And a couple raised your hands. How many were going to ortho or sports? And a lot of them raised their hands. She said: “you’ll all be working with the geriatric population.”.

Cathy: Except those peds people. Then they grandparents that you’re still going to interact with, so…

Jimmy: You’re going to interact with those people. Probably a lot! As a guy who works in pediatrics, I know that! You’re work half of – the kids are the easy part – it’s the parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles that you really gotta work.

Cathy: And mine is the reverse! My older people are the easy part! It’s their kids that are the problem.

Jimmy: Yeah. Isn’t that funny? Love it. Um, so besides just rebranding, what are some things that you’d love to see accomplished during your tenure as V.P. of the Academy?

Cathy: Well, you know, so some of the things we’re really working out is addressing things like ageism. How do we…

Jimmy: Say “ageism” – Tim Fox is just going run from wherever he is right now and tackling us and say “yeah!”

Cathy: How do we have the right conversations? How does geriatrics get to the, you know, forefront to be a little sexy like Carole Lewis likes to talk about!

Jimmy: Yeah.

Cathy: And not, you know, where people going to die. We’re a population of therapists who really love working with older people. It’s just a different, different mindset.

Jimmy: Yeah, what you once thought impossible – you can do that again!

Cathy: Absolutely! And most of the time they think it’s impossible. And so it’s for us to show them all they’re capable of doing.

Jimmy: Yeah. Changing their minds first. And you’ve had some other changes too, right?

Cathy: Yeah, so I’m also the owner of a new business! It’s called Living Well With Dementia, LLC. And I do a consulting and education to help improve the lives and promote well-being for people with dementia.

Jimmy: So who are you consulting with? A client to client basis? Or…

Cathy: So I do some individual clients in their homes. I also do consulting with home health agencies…

Jimmy: Right.

Cathy: And outpatient practices and SNFs.

Jimmy: Great.

Cathy: So really anywhere that someone might encounter someone with dementia. How do we make sure we’re using the right tools and interventions for that population.

Jimmy: What are the biggest differences because you were doing some stuff on a grant before this with dementia, that’s kind of your, that’s your thing, but now it’s different. Now it’s a business.

Cathy: Yeah, now it’s business. So now I have to get paid on my own. And so, our, you know, our work under the grant was free for facilities. And so it’s, now I have a little bit more of a need to be able to show my worth and show my value and, um, but also I can expand outside of skilled nursing facilities. So I can do consulting for private practices. If you’re working in home health with someone who’s having repeated falls you can call me in to say “what else can we do?” When you think you’ve tried everything I can vouch that you really haven’t.

Jimmy: That’s great. And what is the consultation like? What does it involve?

Cathy: So it’s less like a skilled therapy. And it’s really more: “What’s important to you? What do you want to do? How can I make your life better?” So one of the people that I’m working with, we were able to do some cognitive screening to see whether it really is dementia or not. She started on some new meds so we can track is her cognition changing with these new meds. But also for her I really think it was about engagement. She was getting depressed and getting sad of being alone. And so my job was really to find things in the community to connect her with….

Jimmy: Sure.

Cathy: So she can get out more.

Jimmy: This doesn’t sound like physical therapy. This sounds like treating an entire person.

Cathy: It is absolutely! And the well-being is the key to what I do.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Cathy: And that’s a whole person-centered plan.

Jimmy: Yeah, we’ve got to make sure that we know this, and by we I mean other therapists who work with older adults, therapists who are in our profession who maybe work with older adults but can vouch for us. And then that’s when it will trickle outside the profession to make sure he knows that we’re going to help your entire, your entire person – whoever that might be – we’ll help the entire individual.

Cathy: Yeah! And it’s one of the things I love about the Academy of Geriatrics is, you know, we have special interest groups that are doing things like health promotion and wellness, and mental and cognitive health through balance and falls, and all those really unique areas of niche kind of practices, as well as the group that’s working at just mobility skills. And how do we help people live their lives better.

Jimmy: Yeah, and whenever someone likes to bring up special interest groups with me on any show that I’m doing I always like to make sure people know – if you’re a member of a section joining a SIG doesn’t cost you anything else.

Cathy: Absolutely free! And our special interest groups do journal clubs that are free. You know they’re phone-in right now, but we’re talking about other technology ways to deliver it. So one of the things we’re trying to do is figure out how do people want information…

Jimmy: Sure.

Cathy: Delivered to them, that’s useful, based on evidence, but real practical. And how do we help with that translation. I think that’s what we really think as we’re helping with the journal to get the information out, but then really what does it mean to your daily practice.

Jimmy: Yeah, that’s always the question, right? What am I going to do on Monday morning if I take a class or you know I read a paper… How am I going to apply this with that one patient I’m thinking about who’s on my mind when I’m reading this or learning this? I tell people all the time if you were a member of a section, join every SIG! You know, take a quick lap, take a year and take it in. And you’ll, you’ll know which ones you gravitate towards.

Cathy: And a lot of chapters too! They have special interest groups that are free as well. It’s not, not just sections.

Jimmy: Yeah, the people who run these things -the SIGS, the sections, the chapters – they’re pretty much in this just to give. Like, they’re giving their time and they want you to get as much as possible. So when some people say: “Well, you know, I’m not a member of the APTA. I don’t know what I get” I’m like: “You didn’t try! Did you try at all? Did you connect? If you didn’t, I’m sorry, but if you did connect you’d get a lot.”

Cathy: Yeah. And if not, then let’s try again. Come, come visit us at a meeting, come to NEXT, come to CSM, come to one of our regional programs. We do the CEEAA for exercise. That’s a great opportunity to see some of the information that you have more readily at your hands if you are a member.

Jimmy: I think a lot of times it’s not that there isn’t enough value, a lot of the times it’s you didn’t know that that thing that you find valuable was available to you all the time. So what our what’s on the horizon for the Academy right now? Any big events coming up in the next couple of months?

Cathy: We’re gonna be at NEXT conference, we’ll have a booth.

Jimmy: NEXT conference – Orlando.

Cathy: In Orlando. We’re gonna, um, we’re working out the logistics to do kind of a happy hour at the booth.

Jimmy: I like happy hours.

Cathy: A happy hour.

Jimmy: At the booth?

Cathy: At the booth!

Jimmy: Alright, you’re…

Cathy: Come and I’m going to be working the booth with Greg Hartley, our President for the conference. So come by and say hi. Maybe we are going to try to arrange an adult beverage or something perhaps?!

Jimmy: I’m there!

Cathy: It’s in process right now.

Jimmy: I’m there!

Cathy: But we really, we know NEXT is an opportunity to connect to a lot of young therapists.

Jimmy: Yup.

Cathy: And so we really want to connect to this group who is going to take care of a lot of us when we’re older.

Jimmy: Sure. Hope to see it NEXT! And liking the happy hour at the booth idea!

Cathy: You know, I imagine you’ll stop by!

Jimmy: That’s a brilliant idea!

Cathy: Well, you know, we continue to do some courses. Our Exercise Experts for Aging Adults is ongoing.

Jimmy: I finally am able to say CEEAA.

Cathy: Yeah, it’s a mouthful. But we’re working on an advanced course that’s going to launch in 2019.

Jimmy: Really!

Cathy: And we’re potentially working on something in balance and falls…

Jimmy: Love it.

Cathy: As separate course.

Jimmy: Love that. Love that idea! Good! Putting it out there and challenging the therapists

Cathy: Absolutely.

Jimmy: So can go back and challenge those, those older adults.

Cathy: Yes. And, you know, we really want to come at it from an evidence-based perspective. And, and the advanced course for the CEEAA for all the people who’ve done it before is really going to be let’s take cases. Let’s sit down at a table…

Jimmy: Love it.

Cathy: It’s really gonna be all about application.

Jimmy: Love that. Alright, so we have a tradition on the show here – it’s called your FOXtale. So why did you choose to work with older adults specifically in this, in this profession?

Cathy: I was really not thinking that this was where it was going to be when I was a student. I went to school to be a PT in pediatrics

Jimmy: Ooops!

Cathy: And, uh, never got my pediatric internship. And really kind of started – back in the day we were told to go work in the hospital first and do rotations…

Jimmy: Right.

Cathy: I really only ever worked with older adults and found that this was really where my passion was. And they’re so appreciative! Helping them be able to live on their own and live home and have a good quality of life has value to them. For me, that’s even higher than seeing an athlete win a championship. So it’s really, you know, where do you value and I know I’m letting them live the life they want.

Jimmy: Especially when you give them back something they lost.

Cathy: Oh yes.

Jimmy: And you know, working with an athlete – I’m not going to knock it, it’s giving someone maybe that they’ve never been able to do before. But isn’t that great? Giving them something back that they’ve lost and they’ve always wanted but maybe didn’t think they could do? And that’s, that’s really special.

Cathy: And they have such potential.

Jimmy: Love that. Cathy – appreciate your time. Looking forward to seeing you guys at NEXT! And, you know, good luck with the Academy – only great things on the horizon.

Cathy: Thank you so much!

Jimmy: Thanks for listening to FOXcast, a clinically excellent podcast. It’s brought to you by FOX Rehabilitation. Listen to other episodes or read articles and position papers at foxrehab.org.